Foster’s: Free Staters seek to take over our way of life

When state House Rep. Cynthia Chase called the Free State Project “the single biggest threat the state is facing today,” the right-wing media machine geared up to attack. But something got lost in translation.

“A New Hampshire legislator wants her constituents to know that she feels conservatives are the ‘single biggest threat’ her state faces today,” wrote Breitbart’s Warner Todd Huston. “Cynthia Chase wants conservatives to leave New Hampshire,” explained Rush Limbaugh.

Foster’s, the state’s most conservative newspaper this side of the Union Leader, knows better. In today’s editorial, the editors educate their conservative brethren. Chase’s comments “aptly reflect what many Granite Staters have been quietly saying for more than a decade,” they write:

Unfortunately, the Free State Movement came to New Hampshire with the stated intent of taking over our way of life — a way of life the vast majority of us believe is pretty darn good.

And even though [Free State Project founder Jason Sorens] made his intentions clear from the get-go, the Free State Movement has gone about its work in a surreptitious manner.

Free Staters are more libertarian then they are conservative or Republican. Yet, their chosen road to Concord and legislative chambers has been through the Republican Party, not the existing Libertarian movement. This allowed Free Staters to often run for office without have to clearly state their Sorens-ian intentions of political domination. It also wrongly has brought brand-named conservatives to their defense.

Cross-posted on Miscellany Blue

  • susanthe

    One does wonder – if the FSP is so wonderful and benign, why are Free Staters so unwilling to be upfront about their FSP affiliation? Shouldn’t they be proud of being part of the FSP?

    • hannah

      “Free” is a euphemism for “no obligation.”
      I have some sympathy for people who resist obligations, especially when, in their experience, they most often fail to satisfy what other people expect of them. Nevertheless, given the species’ long period of gestation and post-partum development, we are all burdened by obligations, whether or not we recognize them. Talented people hardly notice that they contribute more than they take. It is the deficient who suffer from other people’s expectations of them. So, I have sympathy.
      I also have sympathy for the mosquito, until it bites me.

  • BobRobertson

    But libertarians aren’t conservatives.

  • susanthe

    Tell that to all the Free Staters who served as Republicans in the last biennium, BobBob.

    • BobRobertson

      How about I tell the Free Staters who are serving as Democrats?

      • susanthe

        Are you going to pretend that Free Staters have party loyalty? They were encouraged to run in 2012 as Democrats, because they’d fouled their brand so badly by being part of the GOP coalition of teabaggers, birchers, and all round nutcases. The FSP was/is about as popular as chlamydia, and they knew it – so their strategy was to run as Democrats in order to keep folks from realizing they were Free Staters. Because apparently even Free Staters are ashamed of being Free Staters.

        • BobRobertson

          “Are you going to pretend that Free Staters have party loyalty?”

          Generally, I would say that they have principles rather than party loyalty, thus the votes against proposals by, how did you put it, “teabaggers, birchers, and all round nutcases”.

          • susanthe

            Given that they’d do anything and pretend to be something they aren’t to get elected, I’d say that whatever principles you FSP’ers have are fluid, at best.

            • BobRobertson

              That’s an interesting claim, do you have any evidence to back it up? Have you examined the voting record of any elected FSP participant to see if they held to their principles?

              • susanthe

                Seriously? You yourself said that they don’t have party loyalty, so running as a member of a party in itself shows a lack of principle.

                Then there’s the fact that most of them don’t ever mention their affiliation with the FSP. Lack of principle and lack of honesty.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tony-Jankowski/100000702021060 Tony Jankowski

    I feel much better knowing that Ms. Chase only wants to make life uncomfortable for me and not for the conservatives of the state. I’m hopeful that maybe some of those conservatives might come to my defense when whatever Ms. Chase has in mind comes to fruition. Considering how good the conservatives are about not “treading” on the rights of others to live as they see fit, I’m not going to hold my breath.

    • Chris Blodgett

      Mr. Jankowski, I’d like to know from where does the FSP get the right to tell NH citizens how they should be free of government? Where does that power come from? NH has had a set of codified laws in existence for well over 200 years and it has served us quite well.

      So again I ask, where does the FSP get the right to tell NH citizens that that government, which has worked very well in the past and continues to do so today, should be dismantled? I call anyone who believes in dismantling something that has, and continues to work fine, dangerous.

      • Seth Cohn

        I’ll gladly reply to you… because you and I know both know full well that the FSP isn’t “getting the right”, anymore than the SEIU, Granite State Progress, or any other group has “the right” to “tell NH citizens” anything.

        People elect people, those people make rules (or end rules). That’s the system we live under. Some of us want less rules, since the rules are enforced using threats of force. Some of us want more rules, because we don’t trust individual people and do trust government. The battle for which has more supporters is the battle of public opinion. (And BTW, Republicans and Democrats both fit in that second group… just different issues they distrust people on, and trust government with).

        The FSP, which merely is a bus to encourage the first sort to come to NH (one of the few freer places left in the US). It does nothing but encourage. Folks like me fight the battles of public policy, and funny enough, the folks the FSP has attracted don’t even all agree with each other on every issue, so there is no monolith policy or belief… just a general belief “Limit the size of government” (some want less than others…)

        • Chris Blodgett

          Seth, you once again paint a beautiful picture of a mound of crap. Every single member of this site knows the stated intent of the FSP.

          You’re right, people do elect people. However quite a few people get elected by hiding their affiliations and agendas from the electorate. Those being the FSP. What are they hiding from I wonder? Oh, I know, if they made their affiliation with the group known, they wouldn’t be able to fulfill their master plan. That would really suck, wouldn’t it?

          • Seth Cohn

            “Every single member of this site knows the stated intent of the FSP.” Except when you refuse to listen to people who try to explain why you’re incorrect. “Master plan”??? You really aren’t listening. Which is probably the real problem here, as everyone I know who was elected was pretty up front out about our views on various issues… but maybe some folks (most folks) can’t see beyond the letters R and D. Which is sad and probably why the country is in the mess it’s in today.

        • hannah

          True, we the people, who rule, elect public servants to carry out our wishes. We do not elect them to rule over us. Mostly, they’re supposed to provide for the common welfare by allocating assets.
          I will grant the states are in a bit of a pickle because the Congress, which is tasked with managing the currency, has been consistently trying to ration the stuff and, as happens whenever there is rationing, that has set off a rash of hoarding. Which means the currency isn’t being passed around like it ought and the exchanges it is supposed to mediate become sluggish.
          Some people are sincerely convinced that public servants act in loco parentis. But, that’s a mistake.

          • Seth Cohn

            Hannah, we completely disagree on how money is ‘supposed to work’,
            I agree with Peter Schiff:
            http://www.amazon.com/How-Economy-Grows-Why-Crashes/dp/047052670X
            And yet we agree that it’s a mistake to expect public servants to act in loco parentis. (I disagree strongly that they are supposed to ‘allocate assets’)

        • susanthe

          If the FSP was as benign as you like to pretend, you folks would be trumpeting your affiliation with the FSP from the rafters, instead of treating it like a dirty secret. As I recall, YOU failed to mention it on your campaign literature in 2010.

          • Seth Cohn

            I didn’t list that I moved in 2004 because of the FSP, correct. I also didn’t list that I’m Jewish, that I’m in my 40s (or my birthdate), my income, my favorite foods, etc. I did list my political views, and positions, and anyone reading it would have know where I stood on a large variety of issues.

            • Seth Cohn

              Oh, and in 2005, when I ran for School Board, I did openly talk about the FSP… and the Press focused on that, instead of the issues. And did so in 2010, and pretty much always does… I’m now used to ‘Freestater Seth Cohn’ being the paper’s way of mentioning me. So why should I have to put it on my own lit?

              • susanthe

                And since when don’t you love to be the focus of media attention?

                Why should you put it on your lit? Out of a sense of honesty and integrity, perhaps. Or so that people like me can’t accuse you of deliberately trying to hide it in order to get elected. And we both know that’s the REAL reason.

                • Seth Cohn

                  Susan, when people understand what a FreeStater is, as opposed to the nonsense people like you spread ABOUT us, so that the average person doesn’t focus on the biased stereotype you want them to think, you’ll see more people listing it on campaign lit. I had Reps who after over a year came up to me and said “You’re a freestater? I had no idea, you aren’t what I pictured…”, and I’m not the only one who has had that experience. I completely understand those who don’t want to start with a handicap like that… caused both by people like you and Kathy, as well as those (apolitical) FSPers who get a lot of attention (often in Keene) for being intentionally confrontational. I used to get mad at them… but eventually realized that the best way to change things was to join them and offer better answers. Which is why I blog occasionally on FreeKeene now, for example. Oh, and why I pop in here and chat as well.

                  • susanthe

                    Oh, Seth. Who do you think you’re talking to? I’ve read plenty of FSP propaganda, and plenty of websites full of FSP comments. I know exactly what you are – which is why you want so desperately to convince others that you’re “not at all like we pictured.”

                    Around here, we’re very familiar with the original manifesto that the FSP was founded on. We know what your intent is in moving here – to take over and eliminate our state government – and then threaten to secede from the union. That isn’t a LIE, Seth – it’s in writing. Written by the founder of the FSP – Jason Sorens. The guy who hates all things public, while taking a paycheck from a public university – negotiated by the unions he hates, too. He’s also a Mercatus Fellow at George Mason University – both amply funded by the Koch Brothers.

                    I can understand why you’re afraid that people will find out exactly what a Free Stater is. A cult of grifters, too lazy to build their own randian paradise, so you’ve chosen to move here. If you folks were all that you say you are, and believe all that you claim to believe, you would have bought up a big empty area, or one of those empty towns that gets auctioned off periodically, and built your dream society from the ground up. The reality is that you all are too damned lazy to do that. That’s why none of you live in the north country. Too damned lazy.

                    • Seth Cohn

                      1) There are Freestaters who live in the North Country. We’re everywhere.
                      2) I’ll gladly start the “Susan Bruce Fund to Buy an Empty Town in Northern NH for all of the FreeStaters to call their home”, if you’ll agree to support the effort publicly, and endorse it.
                      3) Jason wants to know if he can buy your mindreading device. I’m sure he can afford it on his union negotiated paycheck, right?

                    • susanthe

                      Really. Free Staters in Coos County? I don’t believe you.

                      Everything I posted about Mr. Sorens is a matter of public record. No mindreading required – just a little research. It is adorable though that he’s telling you what to post, especially given that you’ve tried to downplay his involvement in the FSP.

                    • http://www.facebook.com/kbcraig Kevin Craig

                      “Really. Free Staters in Coos County? I don’t believe you.”

                      Feel free to stop by my house in Lancaster and visit. I promise we won’t let the children bite.

                    • susanthe

                      I can’t promise not to bite the children. And you could be from anywhere.

                    • http://www.facebook.com/kbcraig Kevin Craig

                      Sure we could be from anywhere. I’m from Arkansas. My wife is from Iowa and Louisiana. We moved from Texas.

                      And we ARE in Coos County. We have our name on the deed and everything.

                    • susanthe

                      Good for you. Lancaster is an interesting place.

                    • Seth Cohn

                      Susan, there is this obscure website called Facebook, where I can post things on Jason’s wall that I think he and others will find funny. And I did, and he did too.

                    • susanthe

                      What a clever distraction, Seth! Well, no – not really. Tell me, what did I say about your cult leader that isn’t a matter of public record?

                    • Seth Cohn

                      I think it was more the “he hates this, and that” stuff, is what he meant by ‘mindreader’. And “cult leader”? Freestaters don’t even agree with each other, let alone with Jason. He’s got his own viewpoint, but doesn’t even speak for the organization anymore. But again, we’re _individualists_, and I realize that it’s hard to wrap your head around that idea: Even those who ‘lead’ aren’t well respected in the community. I probably have at least as many FSPer critics of me as all of the folks here on BH. We have no ‘leaders’, we tend to chew them up and spit them out… it’s a hard job herding cats, few last long at it.

                    • susanthe

                      So, Free Staters aren’t opposed to all things public? And unions? I call bullshit, Seth.

                      Of course, talking down to me is the best way to win me over. Clearly I’m too feeble to understand the concept of “individualists.” Condescending dickhead.

                    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Troy-Brown/100003310618911 Troy Brown

                      That you say “FSP Propaganda” means you don’t have any idea. There is no unified directive within the FSP besides “Move and get Politically Active”. There are Free Staters from ALL over the spectrum, and if you saw how much we disagreed and debated between us, you’d probably wonder who it was you were mad at again.

                    • susanthe

                      Troy- I don’t care how much you all argue amongst yourselves. What concerns me is the fact that my state is being invaded by a cult that intends to take it over. It’s a hostile force (read the way FSPers talk to those who don’t buy the baloney) that intends to force their concept of freedumb and libertea on the rest of us.

                      I’ve done plenty of research – and read the propaganda. Don’t try pissing down my neck while telling me it’s raining. Being lied to (repeatedly) makes me a little annoyed.

      • Winston Smith 3rd

        When seeking liberty against a tyrannical government regardless of how entrenched and long lasting is the duty of every American but then Americans dont care about their duty to the Constitution and to liberty anymore, all they care about is maintaining the status quo and their comfortable lives. New Hampshire should feel some level of pride for being the state selected most likely to support the beliefs of the founders!

        • Chris Blodgett

          I should somehow feel pride in a group of people who wish to undo the government, of which my family helped establish? The Founders believed in the rule of laws. And NH has had a set of laws that has served it well for quite some time. Extremist ideology and reductions in the way government works didn’t go so well for those espousing that in the last election, did it?

          Somehow, I think you’re going to have a really hard time convincing people they should be “proud” to be invaded by people wanting to dismantle that way of life.

          • Winston Smith 3rd

            I understand now, you and/or your family members have state retirement accounts and pension funds that you see as being put in danger by reduced federal funds coming into the state. Ihas nothing to do with maintaining a way of life built by your ancestors and everything to do with protecting your revenue stream!
            Subject: [bluehampshire] Re: Foster’ s: Free Staters seek to take over our way of life

            • Chris Blodgett

              See, you went and assumed, only in this case you made an ass out of yourself. No one in my family has a pension fund, nor do we have state retirement accounts. Quite frankly, Mr. Smith, you’re an ill-informed person and no nothing about what it means to be a New Hampshire native. It is said that ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person in the world.

              • Winston Smith 3rd

                You are hilarious, you can’t for one second assume that I didnt expect your denial ?Even if I was correct you would deny it to justify your unreasonable attitude that your laws are sacrosanct and should never ever change ?Why do you have a legislature if the laws are perfect as they are ? BTW – the word you were looking for was “know nothing” not “no nothing” Subject: [bluehampshire] Re: Foster’ s: Free Staters seek to take over our way of life

                • Chris Blodgett

                  Gee, I already corrected that. If the best you’ve got now is going after mistyped word, that’s a sure sign of one losing the argument.

                  Oh I know you know I would deny your loony conspiracy theory. Most conspiracy theorists know there will be a denial.

                  Why do we have a legislature? To ensure that the state is governed in a just and meaningful way. Did I say all laws are sacrosanct? Nope, not even close. I sad the NH has been governed by a set of codified laws for over two centuries. Laws created for the benefit of the people of this state, by the people of this state who know what it means to be a citizen of this state. And I can tell you with some confidence that the men who drafted NH’s Constitution would not view what you in the FSP as a good thing.

                • susanthe

                  You’re a perfect illustration of why the FSP is regarded as an invasion of idiots. It’s especially droll that you think that speaking to people this way will somehow win them over.

    • Guest

      Given the FSP wants to make life uncomfortable for all of those who don’t agree with them.

      • Seth Cohn

        Actually, not at all. Please explain why you believe this to be true?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Troy-Brown/100003310618911 Troy Brown

        Do you have proof of this claim? All I have done since I moved to NH was make life better for those around me, and I have not yet received one complaint.

    • susanthe

      Your post oozes with self-pity, Mr. Jankowski. The FSPers make all kinds of horrendous comments about everyone else, but, the minute there’s any criticism of the FSP, the “poor me” bleating begins.

      From the original FSP manifesto, as penned by FSP founder Jason Sorens:

      “Once we’ve taken over the state government, we can slash state and local budgets, which make up a sizeable proportion of the tax and regulatory burden we face every day. Furthermore, we can eliminate substantial federal interference by refusing to take highway funds and the strings attached to them. Once we’ve accomplished these things, we can bargain with the national government over reducing the role of the national government in our state. We can use the threat of secession as leverage to do this.” http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2001/libe131-20010723-03.html

      You see – we didn’t invite you here to take over the state government, or anything else. We didn’t invite you here. A group of thousands moving to a state to take over sounds a lot like an invasion. A great many of us aren’t keen on the idea of being colonized by a cult.

  • Winston Smith 3rd

    The foundation of the word libertarian is liberty and is most closely aligned with classic liberalism, freedom for all, equal justice under the law and government limited to protecting property rights not running peoples lives. Ms Chase is not a liberal, she is a far left progressive who is currently trying to cover up her support for Saul Alinsky, she is a not about liberty or freedom but instead is about control and exclusion. From her comments you can only assume that she hates anyone who thinks they should bee free of government intrusion into their lives!

  • http://bluehampshire.com/ Blue Hampshire

    BTW I am giving FSP Member Sympathizers a bit more leeway that I would in a thread of a different topic.

  • Guest

    Oh, you guys! This whole Left/Democrat/Progressive Hate-Boner for the FSP is delicious. I hate to wreck your worldview, but I’m not trying to change your state into a Randian paradise or Somalia (Cause I would have moved to Portland if I wanted that.) If you got to know me, I guarantee you we will have a lot more in common than you think. Let’s get drinks maybe? Dinner? A polite political forum and Q&A session?

    Also, beware the hypocrisy of hating on people who moved somewhere and/or tried to make their surroundings better in their opinion. Just sayin’, be logically consistent.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Troy-Brown/100003310618911 Troy Brown

    Oh, you guys! This whole Left/Democrat/Progressive Hate-Boner for the FSP is hilarious. I hate to wreck your worldview, but I’m not trying to change your state into a Randian paradise or Somalia (Cause I would have moved to Portland if I wanted that.) If you got to know me, I guarantee you we will have a lot more in common than you think. Let’s get drinks maybe? Dinner? A polite political forum and Q&A session?

    Also, beware the hypocrisy of hating on people who moved somewhere and/or tried to make their surroundings better in their opinion. Just sayin’, be logically consistent.

    • susanthe

      Surely even a Free Stater can grasp the difference between people who just moved somewhere, and people who moved, en masse, with the specific intent of taking over the state government and dismantling it. http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2001/libe131-20010723-03.html

      And if you’re all so unconcerned, why are you trolling BH, en masse? Let’s not pretend that you all happened to show up here. Someone put out a troll alert.

      • Seth Cohn

        No, Actually, I just reposted/shared what I thought was hysterically funny: you saying we’re all too lazy. (Move across the country, give up your existing life, be an activist for more freedom and liberty… but be called lazy when you get here!) And the open commenting doesn’t help. I didn’t ask for anyone to come here, to be clear.

        • susanthe

          You moved to a state where the infrastructure was already in place. That IS lazy. You don’t believe in tax dollars for roads and bridges – so you grifters should have built your own. THAT would have taught us naysayers a lesson.

  • http://www.facebook.com/elkingrey Seth King

    I’m curious what the people of Blue Hampshire think about all of the Free Staters who don’t vote at all. I’d say about half of the Free Staters don’t vote, myself included. Are we still a threat?

  • http://bluehampshire.com/ Blue Hampshire

    Closing this thread

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